Food for thought

Aiight gang, Im new here, but i get the feeling that you are a real open minded group so lets see if we cant get deep. I consider myself to be an atheist, but i often find myself wondering how life can exist without some sort of god figure in the picture. Im a rationalist, I believe only in what I think is going to happen next, and my prediction is that when death comes a knockin' the lights are gunna go out and nothing will happen next. Hey, but thats just me. I envy people who believe in a big picture, but I just cant get past the thought that everything that happens is just random. I mean why would so much hate be in the world if the big guy was looking out for us? Just curious to know your thoughts on this...

Comments

  • i've been toying around with the idea of religion and only find myself at peace when i'm reading the Bible or spending time with Christians, which is something very different for me. I can't put aside that peace and comfort there is there. I think the whole idea is that the hate and bad stuff is Satan. We are all given a choice to either be saved by Jesus and follow the path that God wants for us, or to ignore it all and get corrupted by the Devil. Our society and world as a whole seems to be slipping the other way. I'm not saying I whole heartedly believe this, but I think that is the basic idea there. Its important to realize that we are given a choice as well. I've also accepted that without evil there is no good, it just all is. We would not realize how great good is if there was nothing bad to compare it all. I've experienced quite a bit of bad things in my life and i'm glad I have. Its like in Mark when Jesus gets cast out into the desert and is tested by Satan and is without food. That is all so Jesus can relate to us, so that he knows the temptation that we are given every day by the devil. I'm not saying i'm like Jesus, i'm just saying that, it was ultimately a very important thing for Jesus to experience, just like bad things can be for us as well. I think i'm just starting to ramble; i'm sick and also very tired.
  • Welcome Benny! Good to see you on the board! <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile-1.gif" alt=":)" title=":)" /><!-- s:) --> [quote="Benny"]Im a rationalist, I believe only in what I think is going to happen next, and my prediction is that when death comes a knockin' the lights are gunna go out and nothing will happen next.[/quote] Okay, I never thought about death like that and it makes me understand how people can fear it now!! Thats quite a scary thought. I guess I don't really have an opinion about what will happen when our hearts stop beating and our brain dies. But the way you say, you believe only in what you think is going to happen next, why do you think like this? Do you live by, what your believe the result of your next action will be? I am somewhat opposite of these. If you live in a world, without the illusion of time, the only moment that exists is the moment of now, the moment that is happening around you. Without thought of past or future consequences. Free will is alot easier to understand this way and life does seem more simpler, without needless thought of future consequence, or any painful memories of the past.. [quote="Benny"] I envy people who believe in a big picture, but I just cant get past the thought that everything that happens is just random. [/quote] So you believe in determinism? That our future actions are resulted from the ones before, or, if you were religious, that god determines all of your situtations and descisions in life and decides what future paths we take. I don't nessesacarily believe in a higher figure like god, but I do believe in free will! Our conscious creates the feeling of us being aware of our descisions and choices, therefore feeling like what we do next is completely random. Say for example, if I really wanted to, I could get up and walk outside and start talking to random strangers on the street about my view on certain things, and the fact that I am not, that I am here responding to your post could well be determined. But at any moment, I could still leave what I am writing here and do something eles. Doesn't that seem fairly random. One of the only things I believe is determined are things of greater forces than us, such as an earthquake that shook and damaged the entire nation, or a plane that crashes into a very large and populated space in a busy city.. But small things and choice, I do think, we can chose our actions towards them, in the moment that they are presented to us. I hope this makes sense. <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/razz.gif" alt=":P" title="razz" /><!-- s:P --> - I just came back from dinner and a number of events, that lead to one happening, made me think. And really I'm the both sides of free will and determinism, BUT, here is what happened. My sister and my step dad were having a bit of an argument about my sisters manors. Dinner was kind of tense because of the argument that went on. Afterwards I was washing up after dinner and a glass slipped from my hands and onto the carpet, but didn't break. I managed to wash it, and then my sister was drying it, and she dropped it, and it broke. It was almost like, that glass was determined to break tonight. It survived my mistake, but did not for my sisters. And I thought, maybe my sister was a little careless and not so bothered about caring to pay attention to the dishes because of the mood she was in, and as a result made this mistake. But at the begining of the events leading up to this one, she could have made the choice not to argue with our step dad, and be polite and easy to live with, help with the dishes instead of grumbling and think about being careful with what shes got in front of her. I could go on about this theory but I really don't know how tolerant you are to reading long texts. I do philosophy at school and do have thoughts and opinions so I don't know how much you want to hear! :p [quote="Benny"] I mean why would so much hate be in the world if the big guy was looking out for us?[/quote] I really don't want to do this but I'm gonna reference a movie. Alright, so theres a movie called Bruce Almighty - and it focuses on the idea that God can control the events around us, but he cannot control the human indiviudal, our decisions and thoughts. He can give us the opportunities, but he can't make us take them. So really, It is not God who is causing all this hate in the world, but the individual themselves. Think about it. A war is caused by a bunch of people who don't know how to handle things without voilent action. They take their guns with the objective of shooting and killing the opposite side, just to get their way and what they want. God cannot reprogram the wires in their heads to tell them not to do such a thing. They, with their own free will and personal beliefs, chose to take such action to the situation, and its outcome is what they make it. You raised alot of interesting points in your post and I really enjoyed exercising my philosophical thinking! I hope this helps you understand some things some more and I hope it wasn't too long. If you have anymore follow up questions or response to anything just fire away and I'll be happy to reply! <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/razz.gif" alt=":P" title="razz" /><!-- s:P --> [b]I hope I don't offend any of you who are religious on this forum![/b] By the way, I am very interested in the moment of now, absolute lucidity within the present moment - it is a very cool thing and tell me if you are interested too! It also has the awesome benefit of lucid dreaming! Anyway, thats enough from me.
  • [quote="156curses"]But the way you say, you believe only in what you think is going to happen next, why do you think like this? Do you live by, what your believe the result of your next action will be?[/quote] Yes, I do. I always try and consider the outcome before I take action. For example, if I were to pick up a ball and drop it, I would believe that it was going to fall because that is what I predict will happen. This can apply to all situations and is not restricted to things as simple as this. When you live by what you think will happen, you are rarely dissapointed. If you can synchronize belief with what you actually predict then life is less confusing. This correlates directly back to my belief about god, since I believe that there is no god, then I am never disappointed by god failing to answer a prayer or anything like that, and have no false hopes of eternal life. Sorry if anyone reading this is offended, these are only my beliefs and I do not wish to impose them on you. [quote="156curses"]So you believe in determinism? That our future actions are resulted from the ones before, or, if you were religious, that god determines all of your situtations and descisions in life and decides what future paths we take.[/quote] I would not say that I believe in determinism. I do believe that all actions are influenced by previous events, but there is no set path of events and people always have a choice. For example, I could choose to eat pancakes or I could choose to eat eggs this morning, but I had eggs yesterday so I am probably going to pick pancakes. However this does not mean that I cant choose to eat eggs again. I dont know if that makes sense, but in a nutshell I think people have complete control over their path in life. [quote="156curses"]and it focuses on the idea that God can control the events around us, but he cannot control the human indiviudal, our decisions and thoughts. He can give us the opportunities, but he can't make us take them.[/quote] My problem with this is that if God is omnipotent and created life, then he also created the individual. An all good God cannot exist, because if god created everything then he also created evil. However if God were to create individuals without the ability to choose between right and wrong then that in a way is also wrong. Thus we have a paradox in which there is no God. Once again these are just my opinions. I really enjoyed reading your post! It was quite thought provoking and brought up alot of interesting things I would not have thought of. I am also very interested in the concept of now and just the concept of time in general. I am fascinated by how the sequence of events is influenced by the actions that take place in the present. Anyways this post is getting a bit lengthy so Id best wrap it up. Thanks for discussing this topic with me, its very interesting!
  • i dont think god is anything like a man/woman. I think that god is something else, more abstract, like creativity or the connection between everything. I don't know. I don't think we can ever know but i belive in something.
  • [quote="we tigers"] I've also accepted that without evil there is no good, it just all is. We would not realize how great good is if there was nothing bad to compare it all.[/quote] I personally couldn't imagine a reality without evil or bad in it. It would look like a childs fantasy world from a childrens tv show or book.. I think a balance in life of both good and bad will always remain, people agree and disagree, and sometimes its what makes things individual in their own sense. It would be somewhat ideal in many ways if the world revolved around love towards one another and the enviroment and such, but it wouldn't last. People would find things to disagree over, and find flaws and evil would being to appear from such negative perceptions and attitudes. But you are right Tigers, that the comparison of evil against the good things in life definitely makes the good that much better you know. Sorry, I sounded like such a downer just then! [quote="rickdanger"]i dont think god is anything like a man/woman. I think that god is something else, more abstract, like creativity or the connection between everything. I don't know. I don't think we can ever know but i belive in something.[/quote] Thats an interesting idea. I like your thinking there. What exactly do you mean by the creativity or connection though? If God was creativity, would he creations of art? [quote="Benny"]When you live by what you think will happen, you are rarely dissapointed. [/quote] But, the problem with this I imagine, is that you are so focused and absorbed in daily life with the consequences and outcomes of your descisions, that you worry so much about it, and this could be quite a controling factor and aspect of your life. If your liveing your life by what you think will happen next, aren't you worrying so much, about what could possibly happen, how this next action could be wrong and who it may upset or affect in a bad response? I can understand that you may be rarely dissapointed by this method of descision making, visualising and presuming the near future, as to minimise mistakes and reach a greater, more positive outcome, but it all seem a little unnecessary to me. [quote="Benny"]If you can synchronize belief with what you actually predict then life is less confusing.[/quote] And for the way you say, if what you predict will come next then life is a little less confusing, I think the opposite. Wouldn't it be more confusing? Always thinking ahead. And it is a benefit in many circumstances to think your actions ahead, but if only a few in your life and not all. To have to think before you say, think before you do, its just overanalysing something that really shouldn't have so much thought put to it. Take life as it comes to you. If you live within the moment of now, and only embrace the moment with which you are experiencing now, you are without all these thoughts of future alternatives and directions for choices that don't need such contemplation. The idea of living within the present moment is that you are focused and aware of the sounds and sights surrounding you. Of course there is still school, routine and timetables to follow, but the present moment rids of any unnecessary thought of the future or past that brings with it hurt or worry. The individual is totally lucid of life as it in infront of them. <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.eckharttolle.com/home/books/">http://www.eckharttolle.com/home/books/</a><!-- m --> I started on the audio book of The Power of Now and I like it. Its an enlightment sort of thing and focuses on what I said before. Eckhart Tolle can explain it much better than I can but I really like the idea of it. I don't know how your life works for you making descisions the way you do, but I personally, I reckon this moment of now method is really down to earth and its really awesome being lucid within the present moment. Check it out if your interested. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile-1.gif" alt=":)" title=":)" /><!-- s:) -->
  • no god is just the act of creation or something, something simple like that or a connection between everything. I dont know but thats my theory.
  • The idea of an afterlife had me very scared at one point in my life. To the point where I was a very aggressive christian, trying to force my beliefs of people purely out of fear for my old post-death well-being. I only subscribe to science now, and the idea of being completely insignificant gives me peace. Everyone is a dumb animal, and everyone is equal. Having to feel like you're "behind in life" and have to "catch up" brings out very negative reactions in me. I've never really had much a taste for social obligation anyway. As for fear of death: when i'm dead my brain won't be functional, therefore It wont generate fear, love, anger...all the things that make life so unbearable. This mentality is a little bleak for the romantic types, and will almost surely land me facefirst in a life (and death) in vagrancy, but it keeps me breathing for now.
  • Wow, I love you post. Your outlook towards these things you've mentioned is really quite chill and easy going. I think you've got some good ideas there. [quote="Lonkenhein"] the idea of being completely insignificant gives me peace. Everyone is a dumb animal, and everyone is equal. [/quote] Completely insignificant, yet equal at the same time. We're all [i]just[/i] humans. Its as simple as that.
  • some of us are ... more human than human! uh!
Sign In or Register to comment.